These new signs now adorn the Nelthorpe Arms pub, in Bridge Street, Brigg - still widely known throughout the town as Scanlon's, in tribute to very long-serving 'mine hosts' Myles and Mary Scanlon. These signs give the historic hostelry a more modern feel than the previous ones. The Nelthorpe coat of arms reflects the connection with Sir John, who so famously founded Brigg Grammar School in his will in 1669. On the Nelthorpe coat of arms - later to form the basis for the school blazer badge - the red hand meant he was a Baronet and the golden crescent that he was the second surviving son. The presence of the sword is obvious - he had been a military man, an army captain. John Nelthorpe was born in Brigg - at a large house in the Market Place - in 1614. Little more than a stone's throw from today's Nelthorpe Arms, where his name lives on.
Col John Nelthorpe fought in latter battles of the civil war and secterian conflicts in Ireland under the direction of Oliver Cromwell.
ReplyDeleteThe 'Red Hand' = 'The Bloody Red Hand of Ulster' does not, as you suggest Scribs, indicate Baronetcy - it was the usual symbol for those who fought in the Irish civiil wars.
The 'Red Hand' is also remains very potent and controversial within sections of the present Irish community.
Rank on a coat of arms is normally indicated by type of crown in the coat's plume - in Nelthorpe's case - a baronet's crown - other types of crowns include 'duke'. 'king', for example.
Oliver Cromwell remains a highly contoversial and disliked figure in Eire.
John Nelthorpe initially supported the parliamentary causes, but later became disaffected and became a pro-monarchist.
Sir John Nelthorpe School's badge is a bastardised version of the Nelthorpe Arms and still retains the 'Red Hand'.
It may be interesting to observe that in the 'Nelthorpe Arms' pub's coat of arms, the 'Bloody Red Hand of Ulster' has been missing for years.
May I suggest some reasons being are the Irish connection with the pub and the number of Irish travellers in and around Brigg.
As for the present signs, Scribs, the raised wall mounted sign looks very attractive, although the traditional hanging sign, in my opinion very bland with its outline being indistinct and somewhat out of focus.
When I first saw the sign, I got the urge to get out my paints to give the sign some distinctive colour.
I also noted another sign, 'This Pub - To be Let'.
Overall, the Nelthorpe saga is just one example of the various religoius fervour about North Lincs - Epworth & Methodism - the 'Gunpowder Plot' meeting at Twigmoor Hall and we could possibly include the area's connection with the Mayflower's Pilgrim Fathers.
Nige - small correction:
ReplyDeleteIn Scallion's day the 'Red Hand' was missing from the pub's sign - I now see the new plastic sign's design has been altered - a 'hand' appears in the crest.
It may be a good idea not to draw attention to it by painting it a disinctive red.
Small correstion to me correstion -
ReplyDeleteIs it a 'hand' - even when I enlarge the pix, I can't quite see what the top central object is.
Any help, Scribbler - you're the one with the specs!
Ken - I was always a subscriber to the "Red Hand of Ulster" theory until (very recently) uncovering a little-known article by Brigg Grammar School master Malcolm Gaze, who was there in the 1930s and 1940s. He was given personal access to all the Nelthorpe papers by Colonel Oliver Sutton-Nelthorpe, chairman of the BGS, governors.
ReplyDeleteMr Gaze concluded: "There is a portrait of Sir John in armour at Scawby Hall, and a slightly smaller old copy at Brigg Grammar School, recently cleaned by J. Lenygan of Lincoln. You can see the
coat of arms: the red hand means that he was a Baronet, the golden crescent that he was the second surviving son. Sir John made his Will on lIth September, 1669, and
it was proved on 5th October of that year, so he died between
those dates."
MUCH MORE FASCINATING INFO IN MR GAZE'S VERY LONG ACCOUNT.
Nige,
ReplyDeleteNever heard of the 'Red Hand' being an insignia of status.
The 'Red Hand' (always right) - sometines displayed open, or as a clench fist was used as a compaign symbol of those who fought in the Irish conflicts.
Google the flag of Northern Ireland aka the Ulster Banner + others and a similar hand is embossed in their centres.
As I said earlier it, is a controversial symbol to certain groups and can act like a red flag to a bull.
I know Sir John Nelthorpe was single, so on his death the lineage was passed to his nearest male relation.
I agree with the Crescent - a heraldric cadence symbol for the 2nd son.
The 1st son had a narrow coloured band - called label - across the top of the shield.
The 3rd son had a cadence symbol of a star.
Don't know wot the rest are, although a rose and cross come in somewhere.
The objecive of these cadence symbols was to be able to recognise individual members of same family when in armour.
The father obviously wore no cadence.
'Cadence' originating from the French meaning 'cadet'....not the cadence found in poetry!!
Apologises, Scribs....but we could both right, or one of us is mistaken about the 'Red Hand' and its association Irish conflicts and/or its relationship with with the status of Baroncy.
ReplyDeleteAfter you suggested the 'Red Hand' as a badge of rank, I've done a bit more research.
Baronetcies were created during James I in the early 1600's. They were particularly awarded to those who fought in Irish conflicts.
I understand Sir John Nelthorpe fought in Ulster.
The 'Red Hand - Dexter' - (right hand) was a symbol that barons and others could display on their coat of arms.
However, the 'Red Hand - Sinister (left hand) is incorporated in the ribboned madallion that barons wear around neck.
Some confusion arises as this insignia was first used in 1929 - obviouisly many years after SJN was awarded his baroncy.
I am unable to find any earlier official badge of rank.
Nevertheless, since the 'Red Hand' was awarded to those who fought in Ulster and the only elitist group who could display it on their coat of arms were barons and above (obviously commoners did not have coat of arms), the 'Red Hand' could also reinforce rank, as well as being a campaign symbol.
If you have seen a 'Red Hand' and have been informed it was an indication of baronetcy then this could be construed as true.
What is interseting is the Dexter and Sinister (R and L) 'Red Hand',
From 1929 it is accepted that the left hand shows status, but I'm not able to establish whether there was a similar insignia that extends back to the 1600's.
Perhaps, the present SJN school's badge with its 'Red Hand' could offer a clue. Is is dexter, or sinister? But it may cause further confusion.
KEN: Could this be the origin of the phrase The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing?
ReplyDeleteScribs.....
ReplyDeleteTry Matthew 6:3.....
Amen
In some past and present societies and cultures, the left hand is/was regarded as the bad/dirty hand - hence 'sinister' (Latin).
Even in our own culture, children, until comparatively recently, were forced to write with their right hand - even tho' they displayed a left-hand preference.
The right-hand was thought to be the 'proper' hand.
There is a strong positive correlation to speech impediments, such as stuttering, with being 'forced' to use their right hand - viz
King George VI
My grandson (7) started to write with his left....then naturally gravitated to his right....now uses either.....
he'll make a great tennis player.