How old do Brigg folk have to be to think in degrees Centigrade, millimetres, Kms and Mls?
Writing nostalgic articles as I do for newspapers like the Scunthorpe Telegraph and the Hull Daily Mail, I find it easy to convert old pence to new pence, despite it being the best part of 40 years since D-Day (of the monetary kind).
I'm half there will weather forecasts, knowing 0C is 32F, 20C is not far short of 70F and 30C is somewhere beyond 80F. That seems to be enough to get me by.
In newspapers I can tell you the page is 27cm wide, but, having started my career in the age of hot metal technology, can quite happily tell you how high 72pt type stands - but only in inches.
I just can't judge distances in Kms - it has to be miles. And as long as Her Majesty's Government keeps up the good old-fashioned signposts (without metric distances) it will stay that way.
It's the same with pounds and ounces. On the very, very rare occasion I have to measure water in the cookery department, I reach for a jug which shows imperial on one side and metric on the other (as instructions these days seem to be printed in the latter).
Those in Brigg who have tried to convert to the metric system deserve praise, but what do they ask for at Brian's DIY when a six-inch nail is required?
Down at Brigg Rec you will find the pitch remains 22 yards long - that's a chain to older Blog followers, a vital measure of length on British agricultural holdings when "strip farming" was in use before the Enclosure Acts grouped things together into larger, more efficient units. There must be a metric length equivalent to 22 yards for marking out cricket pitches, but it's doubtful whether many of the older groundsmen use that side of the tape measure.
We bet they bat for the other side, so to speak.
I'm a few days older than you, Nige and I prefer the metric system.
ReplyDeleteI can usually handle both - imperial and metric, but the latter is much easier to calculate (base 10) than the mixed and often illogical economy of imperial measurement. For example 12" = 1foot (base 12); pints to gallons (base 8); feet to fathoms (base 6); ounces to pounds (base 16).
As the name suggests, metric is based on 10.
1 cubic metre of fresh water = 1 tonne - so working out the weight of other materials using their Specific Gravity (density) one can easily work out, for example,the tonnage of 2.5m3 gravel. Dead simps, Scribbage.
Some years ago I went to a woodyard to buy some 4"x2" timbers.
When I got there, the guy in the workshop said, 'We've gone metric and it'll have to be 100mm x 50mm.'
'Ok', I replied.
'What length do you want - 10feet, or 12feet?'
Now talking about the chain measurement, Nige. The chain is one of the imperial measurements that was based upon a practical application.
1 Chain = 220 Yards
220 Yards = 1 Furlong (furrow)
1 Chain = 1/10 of Furlong
In the days before tractors, an ordinary plough horse on ordinary ground could pull a plough 1 Furlong long (220 yards) in one pull.
In one day, the plough horse could be expected to plough an area of 1 acre.
One acre being - 220 yards long (furlong) X 22 Yards wide (chain).
(obviously an acre doesn't have to be that shape)
As you may already appreciate, Nige, a Chain got its name from the fact that it was a 22 yard length of chain - amazing!
Now we use hectares, which is an area of 10,000 metres, or the equivalent area of 100m x 100m.
The metric system isn't new.....it was devised in the late 17 hundreds.
Some measurements are likely to remain unique. For example, degrees in a circle (360).
360 was based upon the wrong assumption by the Babylonians, or some society similar, who thought there were 360 days in a year.
Neverthless, 360 is conveniently divisible.
But the French artillary once devised a compass with 400 degrees - they got very cofused in a battle with British ....and lost!
As an Engineer Scribs I have to work in both metric and imperial and not only that but out here I find that a certain USA also supplies the country and they have their own "imperial measurement" system.
ReplyDeleteSo your Chain of 22 yards = 792 inches = 20,116.8 mm (millimetres) or 20.1168 metres. Its not the same as a chain by a long way.
My father ploughed with horses, last of his kind and was awarded "Stockman of the Year" at the Lincolnshire Show in 1961.
I now drive a car which has only Kilometers per hour on the gauge, no MPH and the computer inside can tell me how many kilometers to the litre I am getting but doesn't help me with MPG. We measure pressure in Kg/cm instead of PSI, we measure torque in Kg/m instead of lbs foot but we are helped by scientifc calculators and endless conversion tables.
Do we get used to it - NO - we find the conversion we require and convert it to something we understand, good old imperial.
Henry Whitworth - the Whitworth of British standard Whitworth devised his system to outwit the Germans during the Second World War, whereby he took the old "Bolt Size" used in manufacturing and added a size to it hence 1/2" BS became 5/8" BSW. Old spanners had both markings on and some still do. The Americans measured theirs Across the Flat (AF) which is where the confusion over spanner sizes gets complicated - ask the older garage hands about those days!!
Nigel.....since the 70's, 'Celsius' is normally used in preference to 'Centigrade'. Named after Anders Celsius.
ReplyDeleteIn science and industry there are other temperature scales, such a Kelvin and Rankin?(e).
ps If you really want to be clever, Scribs - it is somewhat erroneous to think that water boils at 100'C.
The action of boiling is a mechanical action related to air pressure - reduce the pressure and water can be made to boil at a very low temp - temp is secondary to air pressure.
Increase the pressure and water boils at a much higher temp.
Pressured systems, such as a car's radiator, and steam engines, water can achieve high temps without boiling.
A railway steam engine (One of Nige's favourites) uses super-heated steam to drive the pistons.
Scribs - your comment about 6" long nails.
ReplyDeleteWhy go go Brian?
Just let them grow - file them often and, if you really want to, paint them.
Most people in Brigg are broad-minded, Nige.
Hi Sunny GeorgieMafia,
ReplyDeleteJust for info:
Nuts and bolts were not used until about 1820's....although hot rivetting was used on early metal shipbuilding etc.
When Abraham Darby cast and erected the first iron bridge over the R, Severn in 1779, at Coalbrookdale, he used woodworking joints - mortise and tenon, wedges etc to join the various parts.
Ironbridge is well worth a visit, so are the various museums - Blists Hill Open Air + more, including the Coalport China old works.
It's fantastically dull, misty and miserable today - temp about 4'C, but doesn't seem to want to thaw the lingering ice blocks about the place.
Say hello to the Sun for us...we may see him about in the future.
Anyway, that's enough about weather - Scribs gets het-up about Climate Change if we go on too long.
Hi Sunny GeorgieMafia,
ReplyDeleteJust for info:
Nuts and bolts were not used until about 1820's....although hot rivetting was used on early metal shipbuilding etc.
When Abraham Darby cast and erected the first iron bridge over the R, Severn in 1779, at Coalbrookdale, he used woodworking joints - mortise and tenon, wedges etc to join the various parts.
Ironbridge is well worth a visit, so are the various museums - Blists Hill Open Air + more, including the Coalport China old works.
It's fantastically dull, misty and miserable today - temp about 4'C, but doesn't seem to want to thaw the lingering ice blocks about the place.
Say hello to the Sun for us...we may see him about in the future.
Anyway, that's enough about weather - Scribs gets het-up about Climate Change if we go on too long.
I'm probably somewhat younger than others here, so here's my take: the Imperial system is pretty foreign, and only isolated measures make sense to me. Most are almost wholly unusable.
ReplyDeleteBelow is a list of the Imperial measurements I know, and what I know about them. Any not listed are just arcane mysteries to me, such as chains, grains and quarts.
Acre: Not a clue. Hectares are easier to understand, but I couldn't judge an area in either.
Fahrenheit: Not a clue. When I've been in the US I found weather reports totally useless. I only know that 0F is very cold and 100F is very hot weather.
Fluid ounce: Not a clue.
Foot and inch: Only really good for measuring a person's height. I can't use them well for anything else, and simply convert 1 inch to 2.5cm. I know my height is 5'8", but I also know it's 173cm.
Gallon: I know this is 8 pints, but couldn't judge a liquid in it.
Mile: This is the most useful Imperial measure for me, as I find it hard to judge long distances in km. But I don't know how many yards is in a mile.
Ounce: Not a clue. I still think of babies in pounds and ounces, but I don't really know how much that is except as a comparison to other babies.
Pint: Only really for beer (make mine a stout!), and maybe for milk. I think of everything else in liters and milliliters.
Stone and pound: Only really good for measuring a person's weight. I cannot judge any other weight in them. I do not even know my own weight in stones and pounds, yet I know I am about 62kg.
Ton: This is 1000kg! I do not know how many pounds this is.
Yard: I know it's "roughly a meter".
I'm probably less knowledgeable about the Imperial system than others my age, but I don't doubt that younger people know just as little. I expect that in a decade or two, most younger people will only know a couple of different Imperial measurements (such as mile and pint), and there will be no "system".
Sova -
ReplyDeleteSmall correction:
A tonne (metric) = 1000kg
A ton - not to be confused with 'tun', which is a barrel size, is an imperial measure.
We have an English Ton = 2240lb or 1016kg;
An American Ton (USA/Canada) = 2000lbs or ?960kg.
Further confusion is that both the English and American Ton are each eqivalent to 20 Hundreweight - 112lb and 100lbs respectively.
Hundredweight's abbrviation is cwt - which stands for c = Roman 100 and wt = weight.
I think the origin of the English Hundredweight is akin to the Baker's Dozen (13) - traders could be proscecuted if their goods were underweight, so folks like bakers and colliers threw in extra to save themselves from the stocks!
In the olden days, when Scribs was a lad, his nutty slack would have been delivered in cwt sacks - now ?50kg sacks.
With international air travel - airlines have standardised units of weight - ie fuel weight calculations (but not certain which units they use) - otherwise the loading an aircraft would become very confusing from country to country.
One interesting little snippet I came across recently was related to the Theory Test for PSV (Bus) drivers.
For example, a mixed group of 15 (adult) people = roughly equals 1 tonne - so 3 people in a car roughly equals 0.2 or 1/5th of tonne - 4 people approaching a quarter tonne.
Ton is also slang - ie doing a ton (speed), scored a ton (100) in sport, or costing a ton (£100).
Nearly lastly, I think church bells are still cast and referred to in hundredweights - cwt - but this is probably more out of tradition than anything else.
Now Lastly: English shoe sizes are strange......the difference between one size and the next is a barleycorn!
(or length of), so size 9 and half is half a barleycorn bigger then size 9.
And 3 barleycorns = 1 Inch.
No Biblical references yet in our metric exchanges, so how about...?
ReplyDeleteLet he who is without sin cast the first 14lb imperial weight.
Metric followers must have a more limited vocabulary than older types like us. They presumably don't feel comfortable talking about
INCHING FORWARD
and would never use
POUND FOR POUND
as a comparative term.
Having just read Ken's helpful comments on superheated steam locos, young Sova then makes reference to 0F.
Ken will immediately realise than 0F locos were the least powerful of tiny shunting engines. You could see them puffing round the docks with a wagon or two in tow. They ofen had dumb buffers.
Sova might think that term fits us nicely, Ken!
Ken: I know that there are 3(!) different tons. But if you say "ton" to me, or write it down in any spelling, I assume you mean 1000kg. Unless there was some context making me think about Imperial measures, it just wouldn't enter my mind.
ReplyDeleteNigel: I don't mind using the names for Imperial measures at all, as they're much more homely than the metric names. The traditional names are lovely and full of history. It's just the system that makes no sense. I'm happy to see it go, though I don't see any reason to overly pressure people to stop using it.
Now then Nige.....
ReplyDeleteYou are assuming 14lb = Stone (weight)
Historically, the English Stone (st) both varied according to which commodity was being weighed and it varied from district and country.
In Scotland, for example, a st = 16lb.
And while crops, such as cereals and spuds were in sold in stones (14lb), wool could be sold in stones ranging from 10lb to 18lb depending on which district was marketing such.
Beeswax was often sold in stones weighing 8lb.
So Scribs, we need to academically examine to which stone we're making reference.
Is the Biblical text inviting the lobbing of a tub of beeswax, a sack of spuds, or a bale of wool?
Sorry vicar - no offence intended.
10 MINUTE MATHS TEST (BASIC)
ReplyDeleteThese sums are correct - all you have to do is to enter the appropriate units. Ancient @ Modern....
For example:
3 + 3 = 1 2
Answer: 3 wks + 3 wks = 1 month, 2wks
1. 3 + 5 = 4
2. 5 + 3 = 1 2
3. 7 + 4 = 1 3
4. 9 + 7 = 1
5. 9 + 31 + 2 = 1 2
6. 13 = 12
7. 5 + 3 + 4 = 1 5
8. 41 + 20 = 1 1
9. 110 - 20 = 1
10. 27 + 2 + 4 = 3
11. 2 + 3 = 101
12. 200 + 60 = 1 1 8
nb The defined units in specific sums can vary according to application.
...........and how about:
ReplyDelete300 x 50 x 30 = NA ?
Have to agree with Sova on this one, in that a lot of Imperial measurements are meaningless to the young.
ReplyDeleteJust a few simple questions to most generates a blank response.
I'm 40 and avoid the Imperial system like the plague. The sooner the UK changes the better I think.